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Crate Sprint Car Division  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 04:23 PM
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aha2
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How much interest is the series receiving?  Any non-wing guys switching over? I heard there is going to be 16 races at Sunset in 2012, just wondering on estimated car counts.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:02 PM
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br
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There is also some talk of making Sunset the home track for the NWWT non wing cars? Sunset is a very nice facility BUT, the bottom line is that unless they make some dramatic changes to the size, banking and track surface, it will never be a sprint car track. That may be just my opinion but, most every other driver and fan that I have talked to feels the same way?

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:08 PM
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aha2
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Follow the leader I would assume.  The size is fine, just needs more banking to reward the cushion dwellers.  Easy fix if they will do it.  Why is it OK for the late models or is that not a very good show either?

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:17 PM
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KeeVan_RaceFan100
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The Late Models, Modifieds and every other class has no problems putting on a  awesome show.
Go To the 10:00 minute mark and tell me if this is a good show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bygp343YI1o&feature=youtu.be

not many people video out here so videos are limited

Last edited on Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:19 PM by KeeVan_RaceFan100



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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:31 PM
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Stipe Engine Spec
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Yes I am curious about participation/interest in this class. Also wondering how dealing with the counterwieghted flywheel crankshaft and other issues are being dealt with to get these engines in the cars and running.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:40 PM
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aha2
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Great racing, then why wouldn't the sprint cars be able to do that as well?  Obviously I have never seen the track except on you tube, if the late models and modifieds can roll around the top why not sprint cars?  Seems with larger RR's and smaller wheel bases would mean tight action as well, help me out.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:45 PM
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aha2
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They have 5 cars built from what I'm told, don't know what they did regarding your motor concerns.  Info would be good before I buy a used roller.  Maybe I'll get a modified instead, that looked like good racing.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 05:52 PM
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Don S.
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Sprints ran there for a long time.....but what makes good for a 3500lb 350hp nova and a 1500lb 600hp sprint ain't the sam thing....

The NWWT will have a crate support series OR will go the way of crates, just a matter of time.

Schram has been working on this, crates and starters so IT WILL happen, just don't know when.

Any ways, the NWWT will be there probably 8-10 times in 2012. Just ain't gonna be much fun watching 8-12 cars all the time.

I remeber when McCann had that place, 16-20 sprints all the time......

 

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 06:07 PM
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mesprint69
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I`ve been to several sprint races there, and for the most part it usually ends up follow the leader racing with everyone on the bottom.  Venturing up to the top and you go backwards.  They increased the banking, but it`s still not enough.  Sprints get on the gas coming out of the corners for maybe 2 to 3 seconds then on the brakes entering the next corner.  Just too small!  

Like DW says...."It`s like flying a jet in a gymnaseum!

I do like the idea of a starter divsion for sprints.  St. Helens has been running 600 Micros for a couple of seasons now, but I don`t think they have many cars.


Jerry and crew have done a great job with the facilities there the past few years, just wish they could make it bigger.

Last edited on Friday Oct 7th, 2011 06:21 PM by mesprint69



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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 06:26 PM
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aha2
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I do think the winged 400 hp crate motors would hook up better than the non-wing cars simply because of wheel spin.  The lighter weight sprint cars with less wheel spin could prove to be a very good show if they can get 18 cars a night.  There is nothing worse than follow the leader as well as no traffic.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 06:28 PM
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Don S.
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18 winged sprints on that track will make for a lot of fence repairs and more red flags.

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 06:57 PM
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aha2
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I thought you said McCann had 16-20 every night, did he not run a main event with all the cars?  I doubt it. 

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 Posted: Friday Oct 7th, 2011 07:08 PM
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Don S.
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Not winged...gotsta read what I type.lol

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 01:57 AM
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Jesse Thistle
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I raced there wingless 4 times this year. I think better track prep and wings on the cars would probably do the trick. Coos bay has less banking and races fine with or without the wings on.
That's a great little track. The prep crew just needs to find the right combination of tilling and water to keep it racey.
Also, they ran a couple of those crate motor sprints with us in the limited sprints at Cottage Grove and they were really fast. If you just wanted to run Banks and wanted to be in a sprinter you should definitely look into it.
Those crate motors seem to be really light too. They were weighing in at like #150 lighter than our minimum weight rule of #1600!

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 02:43 AM
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Don S.
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Maybe those cars did ok because they where 150lbs lighter. And do you Jesse really think having starters and wings at banks will be better racing. Those who have been there for a decade or more will tell you they will never prep that place for fast winged racing because it is to small and fans are too close. To dangerous.

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 02:53 AM
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Jesse Thistle
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Yes, things will change. Schram hasn't been the owner for a decade. :cool:

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 03:13 AM
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Don S.
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Haha. How long do you think Schram has been a part owner of that track?....dought you really know.

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 05:24 AM
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Jesse Thistle
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Nope, I don't know how long he's been around there.
Of all the tracks in the northwest I do think Banks would be the best fit for a crate sprint car. The wings might make them able to get enough traction to pass one another but big power wouldn't help much. Another positive is that those motors can be ran for like 3 years without needing to be freshened.
The only way to know if it's gonna work is to give em a shot!

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 05:37 AM
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droberts
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Jesse,
Side question how much are you hurting on most of the normal Oregon tracks when it comes to power vs the open NWWT cars. We run a Skagit sportsman and plan to throw some Oregon time on the schedule in 2012 but wonder if we would even be in the ballpark. I assume qualifying big power prevails but how about in the heats and mains. Just want the 5+ hour drive to be worth it.



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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 04:39 PM
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sclmfan
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Kyle Miller won the Nonwing National with a Limited motor(edit a 360 I was told it was a Limited Motor)at Cottage Grove. Collin Baker was in a 360. If you look at the results Friday was a grip monster, Saturday was a dry slick hell.  http://www.cottagegrovespeedway.com/ So as the track dried the cars became more equal

Sunset, Banks was a much better Sprint Car  over all track before D Walters has J Schram build what track is there now.

The old track you could run two wide in a Late Model one on top on one the bottom.

 The ASCS guys can run two wide but it takes a lot of know how on running on the out side in turn one and two.

When ODSS ran there most of the time they watered the track before the main and would water the top. Most of the Nonwing cars run the bottom because it's way faster and the sprint cars turn so well, they don't push up like the Late Models, Mods and Stock cars do on turn exit. Most Sprint Cars Diamond the track go up in the middle of the turn.

I have Vids from 2009 on my You Tube Site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tejZYytmQg

Last edited on Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 06:10 PM by sclmfan



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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 04:58 PM
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Rick Terry
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I remember an ASCS race at Sunset I believe 2 yrs ago when everybody was running the bottom follow the leader and Crockett just drove around em on the top and won. It can be done. Roger is probably one of the best throttle guys in the business.



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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 05:08 PM
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Jesse Thistle
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Derek, I felt like I had enough power at all the tracks except for Elma. I felt like I was on equal footing during time trials also. It's pretty much a setup and driver combination without the wings on. One exception is that Steve Vague seems to have a good advantage in Coos Bay with that Shark Engine.

Hey Otto, Kyle did borrow an ASCS 360 from Brent Hoover for the nationals. He did win other races with the limited motor though. I agree with you on the ASCS guys running in Banks, the know-how and driving ability those guys have shows what is possible there.

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 Posted: Saturday Oct 8th, 2011 05:22 PM
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Canfield#29
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droberts wrote: Jesse,
Side question how much are you hurting on most of the normal Oregon tracks when it comes to power vs the open NWWT cars. We run a Skagit sportsman and plan to throw some Oregon time on the schedule in 2012 but wonder if we would even be in the ballpark. I assume qualifying big power prevails but how about in the heats and mains. Just want the 5+ hour drive to be worth it.

To answer your question, in a nonwinger power is not near as important.  Ever since I started running nonwing cars people always wanna talk about how much or how little power they have under the hood.  Bottom line is that it comes down to the driver and setup more than anything, Im not saying power doesnt matter, but an a good driver with a good setup and a limited motor will hang right with a good driver with a good setup with big power.  I run an all iron wet sump engine with chevy heads and I do ok, I cant say that Ive ever been out powered...just out driven.  just cause you dont have an open or ASCS 360 doesnt mean you wont be competitive.  Hope this helps.

And about Sunset speedway...I love it...in a stock car.  I hate it in a sprint car, you simply cannot put the power down.  Ive driven pure stocks, street stocks, dwarf cars, and even tried a late model(sucked it up big time in the LM) and all these cars are fun to run there, but again I dont know why it is the way it is with a nonwinger.  last time I ran there in a sprint I literally ran 1/4 throttle.  I wish they could do something to make it better for sprints, but the thing is its great for every other classs BUT the sprints.  JMO

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 Posted: Sunday Oct 9th, 2011 01:22 AM
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MandGRacing96
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thought it was a good layout for sprints before they changed it.  jmo

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 Posted: Sunday Oct 9th, 2011 07:23 AM
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Don S.
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Why is it that a late model/ stock car guy now has a vested interest in Sprint cars and is boasting about a cratemodel winged series.....Duh.....people, can't you see the trees, ....don't drink the cool aid....I have hopes the wesco and usca series stay alive and we continue to see true open comp 360 traditional Sprint cars that have been in Oregon and Washington for a decade plus. No sell outs there. What say you Ron.....

Last edited on Sunday Oct 9th, 2011 07:27 AM by

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 Posted: Sunday Oct 9th, 2011 08:51 AM
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princen17
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KeeVan_RaceFan100 wrote: The Late Models, Modifieds and every other class has no problems putting on a  awesome show.
Go To the 10:00 minute mark and tell me if this is a good show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bygp343YI1o&feature=youtu.be

not many people video out here so videos are limited


Hey now, I get down there when I get the opportunity to and here are a bunch of videos from my times I have been there.  Rick the video you are referring is the Ascs race 2010 but I still think the best sprint race I seen there was the 2010 speedweek one:

Modified Speedweek 2011 A-Main:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwV1zxMtZww

Ascs Speedweek 2010 A-Main:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDBIFzjJImc

8-20-2010 Ascs A-Main:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_v8iUbkboo

8-20-2010 Modified A-Main:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSNCsmcnDVs

Ascs Speedweek 2008:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhYtnFXQm0



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 Posted: Sunday Oct 9th, 2011 11:39 PM
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Scott Sherriff
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The ASCS races were boring...period. But with 400hp crates, or even rules WESCO used to run, would think the track would be fine for wing shows. Hell, WESCO used to show up at St.Helens with 12-15 cars and put on a good show, and that place is much smaller than Sunset.

Just keep the rules at a point where prices for the class wont skyrocket.

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 Posted: Monday Oct 10th, 2011 03:55 PM
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aha2
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Did the Crate Motor race or just hot lap.  Any idea who was in the cars driving?

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 Posted: Monday Oct 10th, 2011 09:33 PM
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NWWT#14
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Actually  the Create Motor cars have run in competition several times this season and  ran very well (mid pack) considering it's a new enity and the drivers have never driven a Sprint Car before !!!

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 Posted: Monday Oct 10th, 2011 10:45 PM
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Don S.
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Hmmmm, they have allowed the crate cars to run with the limiteds.....would make me upset if I had to put the $ in a spec head motor for that class and find out that it might change to a crate series....

If Schram does end up with CG, then between CG, WS, Banks and GHR there could be alot of racing-----eventually, after enough "sealed" motors got out there....

Hot damn Ron, you could sure sell some parts then.

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 12:40 AM
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NWWT#14
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Well Don S., how have you been, it's sure good to hear all those positive comments from you again, must have gotten out on an early release program or something ,huh. 

 However, it would'nt appear that the psychotherapy sessions have really helped, I'm sure your therapist has warned you about dwelling on the past too much, it's just not healthy Don, you need to try harder, maybe Jerry or I could help you out somehow, feel free to give a call (503) 281-1579 .  ;)  :D

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 12:57 AM
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Don S.
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I ain't the guy that got popped in the noise for running his mouth. Oh, thats right, Ron Brown got some un wanted attention at Salem Indoor Races from his own club members.

Did ya hear about Mr. Schrams temper? He was a screaming madman at the end of the LM race at Banks with Biffle right there. I was in the stands as Greg shook his head.....Oh, thats right. Forgot you had already gotten a call from him early this year. I'm sure you'll say it was a very pleasant conversation of course. Maybe you two will have a blossoming relationship. I wish you two the best in the future.

 

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 02:03 AM
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MandGRacing96
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back to the topic...no cat fights please

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 04:23 PM
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Canfield#29
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NWWT#14 wrote:
Well Don S., how have you been, it's sure good to hear all those positive comments from you again, must have gotten out on an early release program or something ,huh. 

 However, it would'nt appear that the psychotherapy sessions have really helped, I'm sure your therapist has warned you about dwelling on the past too much, it's just not healthy Don, you need to try harder, maybe Jerry or I could help you out somehow, feel free to give a call (503) 281-1579 .  ;)  :D


It's things like this that turn people away from your organization

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 04:34 PM
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Stipe Engine Spec
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Mostly I am curious about all the details/rules to get these crate engines in the cars and running. It will definately not be the normal sprint car install.                             My only comment on all this is it would seem the first order of business would be to see the ODSS and the NWWT  reconcile differences and join forces before another sprint class is started. Some special reason that cannot happen ? Just my opinion but I dont feel a racing series (especially touring) has strong car count until they have enough for a A and B main that way there is always enough to have a strong A main when not all show up for various reasons.  

Last edited on Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 04:41 PM by Stipe Engine Spec

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 06:20 PM
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Canfield#29
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Stipe from what i understand they have fuel injection on them and are running alcohol. I'm guessing that they still have a flywheel, they already make a motor plate that has clearance for a flywheel that they use on spec sprints in northern cal.

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 06:29 PM
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Stipe Engine Spec
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Could not find any rules on the Sunset website. Does not say if these engines are injected or carbureted. I would assume alchohol as fuel. Am curious about the motor install into the chassis mostly. Are you allowed to tap the back of the cam, how to handle the flywheel or lack of since it creates a balance situation, using starters, if so are clutches now a part of the equation, rule on a scattershields if flywheels are used. If flywheels are used how is the driveline and torque tube mounted safely. How do they plan on protecting the integrity of the engine. What about mounting a battery. Some of the  questions I would like to know the answers to.

Last edited on Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 08:02 PM by Stipe Engine Spec

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 07:11 PM
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aha2
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Stipe, sounds like more money to me.  Did the three cars that ran at Cottage Grove this past weekend have starters, flywheel's, etc?  I was also under the asumption that the motors were not fuel injected.  Anyone know if this is true.

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 07:27 PM
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Stipe Engine Spec
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Questions I do not know the answers to so thats why I am on here posting to find out. Yes there are some pretty large issues to get a crate engine mounted and running in a sprint car and it will require spending some money. I understood the crate sprints were running carbs but I dont really know that for sure. As an engine builder I would like to know what is legal and how to advise putting one of the engines in a sprint car. I still feel the NWWT and ODSS should be combined before any more sprint classes are even talked about for this area. Even then another class just splits things up even more. Regaurdless it would be nice to know rules and regulations for this crate deal.

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 Posted: Tuesday Oct 11th, 2011 07:31 PM
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Don S.
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Injection would be over kill, not to mention you would be breaking the "seal" on the manifold. More likely Alcohol carb so guys don't have to buy new bladders.

Stipe, there is already a small clutch and starter package available for this. Years ago the WoO where aproached with this as part of a package to get more TV time and NONE of the drivers wanted a battery on board or a flywheel between their feet.

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